Transcript from MSNBC Hardball made May 10th 2001

Chris Matthews-
Remember how we all spent weeks together watching what was happening in Florida. Well last year's recount circus in Florida, with its hanging chads, pregnant chads, butterfly ballots and ever-changing vote counts, triggered lots of calls for election reform.

There were demands for an end, to punch-card voting machines, new standardized voting systems. And consistent rules for states like Florida, that allowed counties to set their own standards, for one vote should count. Well more than four months have passed since the election was certified and while states like Florida and Georgia were asked to reform their systems. The States, wants Washington D.C., the federal government, to pay the cost of those reforms. And right now, the U.S. Congress doesn't seem to have election reform, anywhere near the top of its list of priorities.

With me to discuss that is U.S. Congress and Bob Ney and Ohio Republican who chairs the committee on House Administration, which is jurisdiction over federal elections and Scott Harshbarger, president of Common Cause. .

Let's go to a couple points here. First of all Congressman Ney, you brought this to our attention. What is it about this issue that made the country furious and I mean especially, against the Democrats who lost out on that final vote in Florida. Why is this just gone away as an emotional issue with Congress?

Congressman Bob Ney-
Well Chris, really it hasn't gone away we revived it. Congressman Steny Hoyer and I and I and the members of the committee have had a ah hearing with Catherine Harris, ah other Secretaries of State advocacy groups. So, I think we revitalized it. And you know I made a commitment and so has Mr. Hoyer of Maryland, that a, we want to see this thing be a go. And the Speaker of the House, has that same commitment and ah Mr. Gephardt. So I think we revitalized it.

Frankly, Chris, after all the emotion came in Florida. The Congress wasn't in session, ah we came back late January and then there was the idea will Select Committee, that kind of fell apart mutually, by Mr. Gephardt and the Speaker. And now it's in our lap and I think we revitalize it.

Chris Matthews-
Well let's talk about that. Let's just put the money on the table. We get a 2002 Congressional Election coming up. A lot of governorships at stake, lots of senators at stake, all Congress at stake. This year from now, roughly a year an a half from now. Will we have the same stuff again or can you give us any assurances Congressman that states like Florida, will have their act together?

Congressman Bob Ney-
Well, you know Chris, on a personal level, the next time we see a chad, whether it is dimpled or pregnant, I want it to be in the Smithsonian Institute. And a, we just have to make it a positive clear vision, that were to work together hear in Congress and we are going to get this thing going. Is it going to be perfect, are we going to do be able to do 72,000 precincts, all in the next time? I don't know but we have to make it a goal, to, to achieve that.

Chris Matthews-
What's the best voting system that you know off? What's the simplest, the one with a good paper trail, that can't be cheated on and works for 100% of the people, or close to it?



Congressman Bob Ney-
Well May 15th and 16th, we are going to have an Expo, in a House Administration Hearing Room of different technologies. So I don't think there is the one perfect device. But the touch screen as far as I know is supposed to be a good device. It will give your receipt, it can be applied with a hearing device for a...

Chris Matthews-
But no paper trail! How do you recount a machine, that was done like an ATM machine? Is there paper trail of how the person voted, so you can afterwards?

Congressman Bob Ney-
Well I think what there will be, there we be a technology trail of sorts. With all the technology were developing and I read in an article, that um, some of the major computer companies are focusing in on what we wanted to do, in a sense election reform. I think we will develop a device, that will have, have the ability, to have that, ah, guaranteed recount. I really do.

Chris Matthews-
Do you trust the sharpies in the big cities, that are always ahead of you one step?

Congressman Bob Ney-
Ahum...

Chris Matthews-
To adjust the numbers before even people vote that morning, which is an old tradition in some cities?

Congressmen Bob Ney-
(laughing) Ahee, well, ahee, you got to watch that you know. But I think that, ah, we will be able to find technology, that will be I think, fairly foolproof. And, and people want honest elections, they want to make sure an illegal vote doesn't cancel out, a good vote.

Chris Matthews-
Ok. Let's go to Scott Harshbarger of Common Cause. Your nonpartisan group, a good government group. Are either of these parties getting serious about this need, to meet the need, we saw last November.

Scott Harshbarger ,Common Cause-

Chris, we had a major national crisis last November, in terms of a Presidential Election. It was one that everybody talked about the threats to democracy. The reality that this isn't just about technology or about barriers and standards, in terms of voting alone. It's about a fundamental, voting rights issue. About equality and democracy and full citizen participation. On that score, we are not treating this with a degree of urgency, that it requires. And I understand what the congressman saying. But the fact of the matter is, everybody was announcing proposals and commissions and studies and we...



Chris Matthews-
1500 bills!

Scott Harshbarger ,Common Cause
Right. We leaped into this crisis, by studying it and having commissions, when in fact what we need, is fundamental assessment of why it is, in the high-tech capital of the United States, the greatest democracy in the world, we cannot even give people the right to vote without barriers, that clearly disproportionately affect poor people, African-American. In various states, why we can't count votes that are actually caste, accurately?

Chris Matthews-
Right.

Scott Harshbarger, Common Cause-
This is a fundamental issue. This is one person, one-vote. And with the history we have in this country of voters rights, ah, abuses and a challenge to voting, we have got to treat this much more seriously.

Chris Matthews-
OK. Let's cut. I don't believe everybody in this together. I think there are different points of view and different interests here.

Congressmen Ney, I've heard that Republicans would like to stop the cheating, especially in big cities. Where maybe people are grabbing handfuls of ballots, because there is no white Republicans around, to stop them from doing it. Especially a one party system vote, to our big cities. And the Republicans. And Democrats on the other hand, would like to make it more accessible, for poor people, with less education to vote. The Republican and the Democrats don't have a common interest, do they?

Congressman Bob Ney-
I think we do...

Chris Matthews-
What's the common interest?

Congressman Bob Ney-
The common interest Chris, is for good elections. American people have already...

Chris Matthews-
Oh, come on!



Congressman Bob Ney-
...have a low, low, a low voter turnout. And let me say something. You know, a Mr. Hoyer and I, he is a Democratical Republican, were not the undertakers for this bill. We are having hearings, were moving on it, we want to do something.

Now I know some groups are out there saying well, "you know they do what to do anything", I know people also have to also gin-up their constituency. But we want to do something. And it is not just technology. I agree with the gentleman from Common Cause. I mean, there, there are other things out there to look at. But, you know, if we were serious about this, we wouldn't have had, the large kicked off we had, the exposition and all the work for putting into this. I'm telling you Chris were serious about it.

Chris Matthews-
But the way I was opening the show. I was just saying Florida and Georgia have acted to try to reform their system, but they want the money from the federal till. Is that likely, Congressmen?

Congressmen Bob Ney-
Chris, let me tell yah. And I, I say this rate of front, on this program. I, I don't beat around the bush, about. This is going to cost , $5 billion. Now I think we can do that. Some people say "$5 billion"? I, I been around this building for awhile, I've seen us spend 500,000 to see how cows burp. 5 billion, is not too much for, a, democracy.

Chris Matthews-
Sounds reasonable. And that would be to give every state and locality, sort of the state-of-the-art equipment, to count votes with.

Congressman Bob Ney-
Well, that's right. It would have to be shared situation. We always do that, whether it's Medicaid or elections, is going to be shared situation, of the 5 billion costs, plus there has got to be training. We have to look at a, people's ability to votes, nobody should be disenfranchised, for race or for poverty level or for military status.

But the, but the other thing, that a, you know, I want to make clear to you is that we, we do want this process to work and were not nationalizing elections. Were not telling any state, you have to get rid of those punch cards. I think the pressure will be, to get rid punch cards, once other states do it.

Chris Matthews-
Scott Harshbarger. Let me ask you, historically there's been certain states that have been clean in their elections, Minnesota Wisconsin. Teddy White use to talk about that, back in the days of the Kennedy- Nixon race. Certain states have honest politics. Other states, ethnic big cities, historically, rotten in turns of honest count.

Do you have any parading State, would you point to right now Scott and say "this is a state that has his act together, the vote is pretty much as it's counted, is pretty much as was cast?"



Scott Harshbarger, Common Cause-
Well, I will tell you, that talking to Secretary of States around the country, with the Congress can attest to. Every state realizes, that "there before the grace of God go they". That is, given the fact, that in every close race, in every county, one size doesn't fit all. But some states, have clearly moved to much more aggressively, to have good administrative procedures, were the resources are there were some remotes incorrectly, the vote ballot comes back.

What's interesting Chris, that the absence here of assistance engagement, a broad aggressive citizens coalitions, to push for this, is a real problem here because the reality is it that states in Congress. With all due respect, the Democrats and Republicans, there going to see this as an issue of politics and control to some extent.

What's really a stake here is, why can't we in this country have a fair and uniform and equal voting system, that ensures every person gets to vote and that's what the challenge and needs to be done now. That's what why you need .....

Chris Matthews-
Great. Congressman Ney. Dennis Hastert, the Speaker of the House, I know we don't see much about, he's a quite good man. As he ever personally committed to you, that he'll with that $5 billion and make this happen? Has he ever said that to you?

Congressman Bob Ney-
We have not gotten the details..... The Speaker of the Houses has committed and, and I've had conversation with him. The Speaker of the House is committed that he wants fair elections, he wants the process to work....

Chris Matthews-
But "will he pay piper"?

Congressman Bob Ney-
You know, I believe and when people say "well, what about the money". If this legislation passes, which I believe it will. That will generate the money. Once we get this out there and it'll be a hot potato, that nobody gonna wanta kill the money. I think the Speakers is going to do everything within his power. And he is assigned to this Committee, to make this thing a go.

Chris Matthews-
It seems to me to start with, we got a trillion dollar federal budget every year. The people that control, that trillion dollar budget, it might be worth 5 billion, to get the right people in their, that actually won the election.



Congressman Bob Ney-
This is a fundamental voting rights issue. It's why it cuts across all kinds of lines here. And what I hope the citizens will do, is whether it's reaching out to Common Cause.org or other groups here. We've got to get the people to work together, weathered civil rights groups, reform groups and put the pressure on to get a good results here, in America interest.

Chris Matthews-
Congressman Ney, I thank you very much for bringing this uptoday. And I thank you Scott Harshbarger.

And by the way, the first time I ever said this. Write your Congressman and Congresswoman, and get them off their keasters.

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